winchester model 12 simmons rib

This test determines if excessive peening of the bolt locking cut in the receiver has occurred. President Roosevelt signed the law limiting magazine repeaters to three shells for migratory game bird hunting in 1935. Buckingham is jump-shooting with his big double gun. Add to Cart Winchester 12 12 Gauge (W9744) $995.00 Winchester 12 12 Gauge shotgun. That is true about Model 42s, but, as far as researchers know, it is not true about Model 12s. This product contains chemicals known to the state of California to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm. Free Shipping, No Credit Card Fees. An 80% pattern they felt should make it a real 60-yard outfit with No. Writing in the March 1927 issue of the American Rifleman, Askins reports that his Remington Model 10 12-gauge pump averaged 89% of 1 1/4-ounces of shot in a 3-inch circle at 40 yards. generous return policy, and handle everything you dont have to go back to We have a If not it has been shot very little and stored under the right conditions. In an ad in the October 1952 American Rifleman, Winchester proclaimed. The 12 month average price is $622.51 new and $661.18 used. I recently acquired a 1921 gun. And for this reason the spike in prices for the forty two will go back down becouse there is a alternative that is for sure and safe and they know all the things that people look for to see if it came from the winchester factory. part of our network, we sell THEIR guns first whenever possible. Buckinghams tests led him to buy his own custom Super Fox, Bo Whoop. Bo Whoop patterned about 90% at 40 yards with specially bored barrels. Blue is good showing wear on high spots. Mfg 1917, 25" Barrel, Mod, Correct Forend and Buttstock, Small chip out of toe of butt plate, Wood is not damaged, Good Bore, Pictures show condition, Buyer pays 50.00 shipping Pa residents add 6, This Winchester Model 12 is a post 1972 gun with a "Y' prefix serial number. Saint Charles, Missouri. I am tempted to stop off awhile and call. Winchester Custom Model 12 20ga Deluxe GI#: 102228842 Winchester Custom Model 12 20ga 2 3/4" 28" full choke barrel,Simmons vent rib,serial #683559,fancy French Walnut checkered stocks with great color and figure,jeweled bolt and lifter,ex .Click for more info Seller: First Stop Gun Area Code: 605 $1,750.00 Free shipping for many products! The lead slug added weight but more importantly maintained the balance point at the takedown joint. There was only one way to go after World War I: standardize shell lengths, discontinue bastard gauges and reduce the load options. RIAC believes that this website is accessible to the widest possible audience pursuant to the guidelines of the Americans with Disability Act. Stadt's book is a very good book that alot of people don't seem to know about. Get 12 Issues a year of the country's best firearms writing. George Watrous, a longtime Winchester employee with many talents, was commissioned to investigate the good and bad points of Winchesters pre-war line and make suggestions for postwar improvement. I have a questionwhen a gun is described as having a "milled rib" I thought that referred to the fact that the barrel had posts that were milled as part of the barrel instead of being attachedI see guns described as having "round post milled ribs" I don't think that is correct? When winchester changed the chamber to 3" did they mark the barrels or reproof? A milled rib Model 12 is a milled rib Model 12, but the terminology is used a bit loosely. is 14" with pad. Small depression in the magazine tube, as shown in pictures. Open Fullscreen. winchester model 12 heavy duck gun 30" simmons vent rib 1953 pre-64 rare 12 ga. magnum 3" edition proof marking - 12 gauge magnum - 5 - 30 " Gun #: 978404477 Seller: Sportsmans Legacy GA Sales: 739 $25,000.00 It has a fiber optic front sight which is not origina, SOLD Ser no 1949422, Mfg 1962, 3-Pin Vent Rib, Full, 30" Barrel, Signed by M Dubber, Who I beleive was a colt engraver, 14 1/2" Lop to Winchester Red Vented Pad, Comes with case, Excel, Winchester Custom Model 12 20ga 2 3/4" 28" full choke barrel,Simmons vent rib,serial #683559,fancy French Walnut checkered stocks with great color and figure,jeweled bolt and lifter,ex, WINCHESTER MODEL 12 HEAVY DUCK 12GA 3" MAGNUM. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Eight major concealed carry insurance programs are now available to the millions of Americans who carry concealed. There are currently no customer product questions on this lot. Pandemonium! customers to the absolute best of our abilities. It would stop ducks consistently at 80 yards. Two years after Askins wrote the above, he received from Ithaca the first 3 1/2inch Magnum 10 double off the assembly line. It was John Olin who inspired Westerns revolutionary Super-Xshotshell in 1921. However, Winchesters ribs were not marked with the Simmons name and Kansas City address as mine is. Ernie Simmons had a close relationship with Winchester & John Olin; if you find any NSSA ,ATA, Field & Stream and Sports Afield magazines pre-war and post war you'll find he sold plenty of Winchesters out of his gun shop and attended many shoots selling target guns. S/N 1,589,*** made in 1954. Chamber marked 2 3/4", choke marked full, and 14" LOP. No Reserve. Duck hunters bought 12-gauge doubles with 3-inch chambers to use the new Super-X magnum load, the Super Twelve as it was soon called. during that time I handled many M-12's of varying configurations. Franklin W. Olin founded Western Cartridge Company in 1898. For example, only about 300 Super Fox and 800 of the Ithaca Magnum 10 doubles went into hunters hands during the period. Some late duck guns came with special order Hydro-Coil stocks, according to Madis. Since Every shotgun manufacturer is a friend of mine, Askins views were well known in the industry. Range was 40 yards from gun muzzle to target frame. Title. , Excellent Winchester Model 12 12 gauge Deluxe Skeet gun with factory issued Cutts Compensator. "SN:561491. The fact that the Winchester proof marks are now 'off set', caused me to believe the gun may have been returned to the factory for the rib installation. Mar 24, 2023 Winchester Model 12 Shotgun $150 Mar 24, 2023 Two Winchester Pump Shotguns $150 Mar 24, 2023 L.C. Simmons Gun Specialties rib has been added to barrel. or Rudy Dozenrod out of Wyndemere, S.D. Results and Discussion The paired pattern percentages fired by the two duck guns with each of the five loads were not significantly different, judging by the overlapping standard deviations. WE DO NOT SHIP INTERNATIONALLY $40 Shipping. prior written consent of the Copyright holder. Winchester Model 12 16Ga Pump Shotgun 28" Excellent condition Made in 1939 Gun #: 903285649 Seller: JerArms GA Sales: 60 $872.00 Full Details More from this Seller 1 Image (s) Winston Churchill custom Winchester Model 12 Pigeon 20 gauge, gold relief, staggering wood, provenan. Western brought out their Super-X 2-3/4 and 3-inch shotshells in 1921. Winchester Model 12 28 Gauge (W9229) Price: $3,250.00 Item Number: W9229 Previously sold Winchester Model 12 28 Gauge shotgun. Beautifully figured wood is solid with only light handling marks and marks on bo, This Winchester Model 12 started life in 1924 and has been customized by unknown individual at some point. Original appearing donut post and round post vent rib Model 12s with no Simmons markings and proof marks in the proper places are generally thought by collectors to have been made to completion in the Winchester factory. Ithaca brought out their Magnum 10double to use the new shell. Rudy was well known with model 12' s and pre-64 model 70's now as far a Felix, he's in a better place now. The barrel is stamped "WS 1" with 2 3/4, ****SOLD******Mfg 1956, 30" 2-Pin Vent Rib, Full, B-Carved Wood, 13 3/4" Lop to Winchester Pad, Wood shows some handling marks Nothing Bad, 90-95% Blue, Shiney Bore, Buyer pays 60.00 shippin. Winchester sent some M-12s to Simmons to have ribs installed, Simmons returned them to Win. Generally, a Simmons rib gun will bring a higher price than a plain barrel gun, and a lower price than a solid rib or Winchester vent rib gun, all other factors being equal. At a reasenable Price, you can have that gun you allways wanted without all this drama. The Nylon 66, a relatively inexpensive rimfire with faux woodgrain, was the first successful synthetic-stock firearm. Some patterns of #4 shot might let a duck escape if it were caught just inside the margin of the 30-inch circle. It won't be a collector but a shooter and should draw some attention. Winchester Model 12 with checkered forearm (slide handle) b'. The ducks shot by me in the accompanying photograph were taken with Skeet boring and trap loads of #7 1/2-shot. Featured Gun Classifieds Winchester Shotguns - Model 12, Winchester Model 12 - 20ga - 26 - Improved Cylinder- NIB - UNFIRED - SN: MT0162 - AS NEW with high figured wood - 2 3/4" Shells note: particles/dust can be seen in the photo, In very good condition. Like new with a mark on the top of th, Winchester Model 21 Heavy Duck, 12ga, 30" barrels, solid rib, 3" mag. Can you help me out? Winchester stated both 2 1/2 and 2 3/4 shells perform satisfactorily in this [duck] gun. The ejection port of the duck gun is about 1/8-inch longer than the standard port. Herbert Houze summarizes the Watrous report in his book Winchester Repeating Arms Company, Its History & Development from 1865 to 1981. Winchester designed the Model 42 to use the new shell and the combo went to market in 1932. Save $500.02 SKU: 3226743 . This Model 12 has Serial Number 1391884 was produced in 1953. Charles Askins confirmed the tighter patterns and greater effective range in the field. The slide handle of early duck guns was round with 18 circular grooves. . Both guns have 30-inch Full choke barrels inscribed FOR SUPER SPEED & SUPER-X 3 IN. The bores are bright with no pitting. Winchester undertook preparations for improvements in its firearms line following World War II. I am anxious to get it back from the engraver. Along in the 1920s a few bold souls had long-chambered [3-inch], overbored, long-barreled, and heavy, long range 12-gauge Magnum double guns built. 30" Full choke barrel. Chamber marked 2 3/4", choke marked modified, and 14" LOP. Free Shipping, No Credit Card Fees. The magnum led to new class of long-range double-barrel shotguns for waterfowl. However, the gun for which Johnson is best remembered is his Model 12 pump-action shotgun, The Perfect Repeater.. Each fired target was turned over and a 30-inch cardboard disc placed to cover the maximum number for pellet holes. That way, were helping small businesses in Olin included his new Super-X magnum 3-inch shells loaded with 1 3/8 ounces of shot. Nickel and ivory sight beads on the aftermarket Simmons rib, with choke marked full and 2 3/4 inch chamber. Most books say they did not. In 1960, length of pull was increased to 13-3/4 inches on duck guns. He is engraving the old (Ulrich big duck 12-5 pattern) on it. I don't believe their ever was a royalty, actually Simmons kept selling his special vent rib model 12's after the 1955 introduction of the Winchester Special Vent Rib @ New Haven. Copyright 1995-2023 eBay Inc. All Rights Reserved. I believe the blueing to be original. Winchester ~ Model 12 Custom~ 12 GA Used Guns. I rebuilt all of the trigger assemble with all new parts just reusing the guard. 30" Vent Rib Excellent White Front . Mechanically excellent. a post would have spent 281.5 hours trying to correct off handed remarks as a expert about winchester model 12's & 42's. When I went to the university in a different town I worked for another gun shop that was an authorized Winchester Repair Center. Although the quality of the rib will be the same as the original Winchester, the only way a Simmons rib looks OK on a Model 12 is if they DON'T put their silly name down the side of the rib. The new Model 12 duck gun was introduced to long-range waterfowl hunters habituated to heavy double shotguns chambered for 3-inch shells. seller description. 80 of 1916 indicates seven empty 12-gauge paper shell lengths (2-1/2 to 3-1/4 inches). The Gun and the Times The Model 12 duck gun examined by the staff of the American Rifleman in 1936 was the earliest version. Everything functions as it should. This is why they were rust blued instead of hot blued. The 30" vent rib barrel is very good with a bright shiny bo, This Winchester Model 12 in 12 Gauge is in good condition with moderate wear to the wood surfaces and light thinning of the bluing on the barrel. Solid rib model 12 made in 1954. Checkered semi-fancy walnut pistol grip stock with extended forearm and a solid Winchester recoil pad. restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum. Epic 22 Pocket Pistol: The Beretta 71 Jaguar. The stock is the upgraded Monte Carlo style capped pistol grip, heavy pad, upgraded wood, and cheek rest. MAKE OFFER. I know the patent date for this rib was 1919. Instead of buying a gun thats Then people would choose a grade of model 12 and add or change things to ther hunting or shooting style. Get the latest news and reviews from Gundigest.com. Its even harder to find a 2-barrel set 16 gauge. These were turned out by the Hunter Arms Company of Fulton, N.Y. in L.C. Winchester Model 12 Skeet Gun 12 gauge with 25" Solid Rib Barrel - 12 GA: 0 5d 7h 6m 17240921. The straight grip stock, optional from 1935, was discontinued in the late 1950s. Buckingham recorded his adventures in some of the best hunting stories ever written. In the 1950's Winchester's costs were losing pace with what they were ablle to sell their products for. The Model 12 was about 40 percent more expensive than the '97, yet it consistently outsold its older brother during the 45-year-span they shared in the Winchester catalog. Bore is excellent. Produced in 1961. , The Winchester Model 12 Y series was introduced in 1972 and made until about 1984. the shot gun is in very good condition , with a 28 in ventilated rib barrel with full choke. I also have seen a few in my day where the solid rib was removed and actually sent a customers Black Diamond to Simmons back in the seventies to put a vent rib on a solid rib gun. Its been debated over the years if the solid rib model 12 barrel were silver brazed or fused with heat? 4 chilled shot.. You jack the shell out and it goes off under your nose. These are rare, a line can be seen along the dounut post on both sides. Action works very nicely. Model 12 duck guns are highly specialized tools for a very limited number of duck hunters who can regularly center a duck at 40-60 yards, and need to. Although acquired many years apart, the two duck guns are of nearly the same vintages, 1952 and 1953. Helping out a person with 3378 posts who if they spent 5min. ONLY ONE EVER PRODUCED BY WINCHESTER, ULIMATE RARITY. The Winchester Model 12 Heavy Duck Gun Proved Itself a Shooter, Colt No Longer Exclusive Owner of M4 Rifle, Mossberg 940 Pro Turkey & Tactical Review: Shotgun Shangri-La, SHOT Show 2023 Picks: Fossari CRX9 Sporting Over/Under, SHOT Show 2023 Picks: Browning Citori High Grade 50th Anniversary, 8 On-Target Concealed Carry Insurance Options (2022), 10 Affordable Double-Barrel Shotgun Options (2022), Best AR-15 Options For Any Budget And Buyers Guide (2022), Best Concealed Carry Handguns For Women (2022). A lot of us will have to begin learning to hit long-range ducks. Sounds like an invitation to join the long-range duck hunting cult! It looks like it is in very good shape. H. Lea Lawrence relates in his 2001 GUN DIGEST article, The Saga of Bo Whoop, that in 1921 John Olin sent Buckingham his personal heavy double, a custom-choked Super Fox, for testing. The barrels and receivers of Model 12 duck guns are made from Winchester Proof Steel. This steel was first used in the Model 21 double introduced in 1931. Need Help?service@guns.comCall (866)582-4867, PO Box 1131 13800 Nicollet Blvd Burnsville, MN 55337 2023Guns.com. The pidgeon-grade duck gun was discontinued in 1961. Exc Orig Condition, Winchester Model 12 28-gauge, factory original, WINCHESTER MODEL 12 LIMITED EDITION 20GA. Winchester proof steel is chrome-molybdenum steel. The Simmons rib is done at Winchesters direction as it has the WP proof offset from the rib. Delivery times may vary, especially during peak periods. Dolphin717, please give us a page reference in Stadt where he mentions Simmons sending Model 12s with ribs back to Winchester for finishing, and/or marketing. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Winchester Model 12 12 ga 30 in Barrel 2 3/4" Full vent rib Barrel NICE! Winchester Model 12 Pigeon 28 Gauge Single Family Owned Since 1967, Vent. Askins wrote in his 1929 book Modern Shotguns and Loads: Perhaps half the game that is killed in America today is shot with repeating shotguns, pump or automatic. Charles Askins was the leading expert on shotguns in the first half of the last century. As good as the Brownings are, Ill just keep my Model 12s from New Haven. very accurate description and fast delivery, HOCH Reloading Single Cavity Mold c56 309170 .309 170gr nose pour NICE (#334593408927), Arrived quickly, well packaged, item is as described. Western rapidly achieved a leading position in the ammunition industry through innovation and skillful management. Blue Book on this fine collector 12 gauge is around $2,700! This was a result of the Watrous report, which recommended that many of the slow-selling options be discontinued following the war. It has a Simmons rib, which is not out of the question for Winchester to have used according to Maddis in his book of the model 12's. The metal finish is superior to a field grade gun, higher polish and a matted receiver top and magazine tube. The new 1935-style buttstock featured a closer and fuller pistol grip. I worked in two gun shops when I was in college. - Top Rated Plus - opens in a new window or tab, - eBay Money Back Guarantee - opens in a new window or tab. to be finishedat least thats what Stadt says in his book"Winchester, Shotguns and Shotshells"very interesting book.a little different look at M-12 than Madis and Riffle.WC. The Olins soon added to the attractiveness of the Model 12 duck gun by bringing out a new 1 5/8-ounce load for the 3-inch shell. Ernie Simmons of Olathe, Kansas, a gunsmithing "whiz-kid" and a fairly good skeet shooter to boot-they were involved in the later cost-saving Winchester ventilated ribs for various Winchester shotguns- Model 12's, Model 50's, possibly Model 21's-. rifle w/ Jaeger Quick Detachable scope mount 3 Remington mod. An offset proof mark will boost the value compared to an aftermarket rib. Loose bolts and excess head-space occur only after long service. Save my name and email to use for future comments. Learn how your comment data is processed. This test, along with a check of adjustment remaining in the takedown joint and functioning of the slide lock dis-connector, are my standard mechanical checks for a Model 12. Manufactured in 1959. This gun is in excellent condition and has very desireable solid rib barrel with full choke. Rib Boat, Winchester Winchester Rifle Parts, 12 in Frame 12 in Wheel Electric Bikes, 12 Gauge Barrels, Youth Football Rib Protector . Whether you're looking for a truck gun, something for the bug out bag, or a do-anything firearm we have you covered. Bore and action are excellent. 1937 2pin vent rib offerd, all skeet grade guns offerd with solid or plain barrels. Could it be that the intended rough usage led to lack of care in the fitting of parts of early duck guns? I have the wood all refinished. No. says Madis. Chamber marked 2 3/4", choke marked full, and 14" LOP. Skeet gun marked "2 7/8" chamber skeet 28 gauge. Jack OConnor was there and sets the scene nicely in the Complete Book of Shooting. Although the quality of the rib will be the same as the original Winchester, the only way a Simmons rib looks OK on a Model 12 is if they DON'T put their silly name down the side of the rib. 1 9-16" DAC, 1 9-16" DAH, 14 1/2, Very good plus overall condition. It still is. Winchester Model 12 1940's gun. 26" Vent Rib Barrels Choked SKEET. Winchester - Model 12, Deluxe, Pump Action, RARE 28ga. This shotgun is in near new condition in the original box. I kept the ones that were dearer to me so now they live in safes and I hate the safes. The balance point is the takedown joint. Here's what it's like to shoot this classic scattergun. Buttstocks of duck guns had lead slugs inserted into the wood beneath the recoil pad. Action works perfectly. Some will even go 85% to 90%, but rarely. Keith, who obtained Askins Ithaca 10 magnum double upon Askins death, achieved 93% patterns with two ounces of copper-plated#3 shot in the big double. I would think if you did shoot you proble flinch like heck becouse ther must be a lot of jerk in you. I have read the 3 different books I have on model 12's from cover to cover many times. It is the skeet style of stock with a comb drop of 1 1/2 2 1/2 inches, and a 14-inch length, butt to trigger. 3-inch Super Twelve Shotshell My copy of Winchesters Catalog No. My second blast bites off a dismayed climber. His handload was a .heavy load of Herco powder and 2 ounces of shot, either 2s or 4s. My gun is a pump action Model 12 shotgun with a grooved slide handle (forearm). Westerns innovation was progressive-burning powder that deformed fewer shot during acceleration. Introduced in 20 gauge in 1912, 16 and 12 gauge guns followed in 1914. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The solid rib gun shows carrying wear while the ventilated rib gun was refinished when the rib was installed. This is a shotgun I should never have sold. The 1 5/8-ounce load of the mid-30s bought the 12 magnum a few more yards of range. But it would be my guess that the wood has been refinished and the gun has been reblued. However, killing ducks at long range remained the objective of many duck hunters. We join Buckingham in his ducking skiff as he is poled through the bayou by Ab, his black guide. A study of Michael McIntoshs book Best Guns indicates that a few thousand of the specialized waterfowl doubles of all brands were sold between 1921 and 1941. This gives a wrinkled appearance on bottom of pistol grip and bottom of forend. Winchester Model 12 12 ga 30 in Barrel 2 3/4" Full vent rib Barrel NICE! Winchester Pre War Mod 12 Trap 2 Barrel Set 12ga, Winchester Pre 64 Mod 12 DU Illinios No.1 Engraved by M Dubber, WINCHESTER MODEL 12 HEAVY DUCK 12GA 3 INCH MAGNUM, Winchester Model 12 16 Gauge rare 2-barrel set, Used Browning BT99 Plus 12 gauge 28" bbl fixed choke mod good condition no box no manuals, WINCHESTER MODEL 12 16GA PUMP ACTION SHOTGUN, Winchester Mod 12 Vent Rib B-Carved Wood 12ga, "Winchester Model 12 Shotgun 12 Gauge (W12258), Winchester, Ducks Unlimited, Model 12, 12 Ga, Shotgun, Winchester Model 21 Heavy Duck, 12ga, 30" 3" mag, Briley Chokes, Winchester Model 12 12 ga. Deluxe Skeet grade w/ factory Cutts, Winchester Model 1912 Nickel Steel 20 gauge 24" VR bbl EARLY Serial #. Yes the 2-pin milled rib was costly to manufacture. Stay in the know. The earliest Simmons catalog I ever found was 1949 when Ernie began advertising his "Special vent rib" which was the "Dounut Post". Two birds tumble all awry from among the leaders. The 30" heavy barrel is proof stamped "WINCHESTER TRADE MARK MADE IN THE U.S.A."; "-MODEL 12 - 12 GA. - FULL"; "WINCHESTER PROOF STEEL"; "FOR SUPER SPEED & SUPER - X 3 IN.". of a company that is committed to your satisfaction. The latest 2-pin rib gun researched has a serial number of 19114xx with a date of August 26th, 1960. - Straight Sighting Plane - Floating Vent rib action - Extra Strong Silver soldered posts Gun Type Over/Under w/RBSingle Barrel w/RB To elaborate on lowgun's response, the "round post" rib was made by Simmons, not Winchester. You are also correct that the different rib styles used on Model 12's can get confusing..EG. I don't believe it has been fired. You have entered an incorrect email address! Winchester cautiously claimed 70 to 75% pattern in a 30 inch circle at 40 yards.. My favorite 2 pins were Trap Guns made between 1957-1959 including special order Pigeon grades; fit, finish and blueing was best in those later years. Get the 76th edition of the World's Greatest Gun Book. The original "Old milled rib" was developed by Winchester in the 1920's- but like so many of the older quality features, post WW11 competition by Remington and Ithaca made Olin-Winchester more "cost concerned"-- Many Model 12's were equipped with Simmons ribs afterwards, some were sent to New Haven by Simmons, and some Model 12's (and others .