If you have to ask,your needs are a lot more modest than that. That means there are lots of them. I've had light 'arguments' with fellow hobbyists claiming most of their fellows are predominantly technically - oriented vs. what I would consider is a more liberal artsy approach - any way it's a great balance. HO trains are very durable and are made with high quality parts and pieces to ensure the longevity of the Lionel train brand! Some great beginner accessories are the #12052 Fastrack Highway Signal set, which is a set of highway signals that blink as the train goes by. It also has an optional bell sound that can be turned on and off. I'm guessing the MTH Z1000 is around $100 and the other suggestions are much more expensive. Now, I diconnected that old dinosaur and connected two separate smaller ones which weren't powerful enough to run my Amtrack MTH trains. I justhave a very basic 027 set (guessin' mid 80's?). While better starter sets usually include a more robust transformer, as a general rule the power pack supplied with your starter set is just thata start. A solid and stranded wire of the same gauge will be the same total diameter. That said, if youre uncomfortable fixing a transformer, I wont look down on you for buying one someone else fixed up. The multi-conductor wire is also available. Max Watts on one TIU is 720W. It is also a good idea to run your accessories off of a separate power supply and wire grid from the trains themselves. Ill try to find a link to it for you. Sell Your Trains Yourself On eBay. In some cases. Understanding the difference is important in getting the right power supply for your needs. Traditionally, Lionel trains run on AC but there are exceptions. The house's current is reduced to the required low voltage by Trainmaster Transformers. TRANSFORMERS ransformers were issued by Lionel thoughout the Post War period. Because of this, like with lighting and accessories, your power supply and wiring for switch machines do not need to be as robust. My question is this in order that this doesn't happen again what type of transformer would you recommend? Part of the Lionel line since the 1930s, the gateman today is offered not only with a regular railroad-type figure, but also in versions with Santa Claus and a nutcracker figure for the Christmas season. This conserves the trains' power supply for their needs and makes troubleshooting much easier. Here are a couple examples: As you can see, with a bit of experimentation and imagination, numerous different track layouts can be created. All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. Transformer sizing for new systems And again regardless of scale or manufacturer, switch machines of these two types will have similar needs and performance. I don't want to buy a lot more track, but then find out the transformer is too weak, if that make sense. There are many advantages in repairing or reconditioning your transformers. Everyone wanted the two-handled, football-shaped, 275-watt powerhouse that was the ZW. is always one of the first questions asked when someone starts to build a model railroad. As your needs grow, you can employ a larger transformer of fixed voltage. If youre looking for Lionel transformer comparisons, youve come to the right place. Here at Trainz, we carry all of the products you will need to go from a starter set to a miniature railroad empire. CW80 Transformer. We're sorry. Safety first. Steve's rule of thumb for derating is very close to and in the same spirit as the NEC rule that an appliance may not draw more than 80 percent of the current rating of the outlet. I'm sure I'll need more help along the way, so I'll be checking back in with more silly questions! Thanks in advance for any information, Mike. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 (or smaller) sheet of plywood, a 90-watt Lionel 1033 or 1044 is an excellent choice. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. White and black are common selections. Well Mike what I am about to suggest may be a little pricy or at least it was for me but I have managed to buy a new Lionel ZW. A while back, approximately 2 weeks ago while running two very lengthy loops of fast track an old transformer nearly fried (50 years old) one of my wires that I was running to my Fastrac. David, looking at your layout I notice there is a two rail and a three rail ? If you have time, check out the "Coffee Pot". Many manufacturers assemble cases with special screws to prevent access to the inside and accidental shock. http://www.lccuk.org.uk/lccuk Regards Nick Save Reply Quote N Nick12DMC Registered Although not necessarily a mandated standard, white, black and or red are used for track power on most layouts - if for no other reason than these colors are easiest to find. But after a little while, you will likely want your train to do more, and youll start thinking along these lines: --It sure would be neat if it did more than run in a circle. Just like with your track bus and feeders, running an accessory bus of slightly heavier wire to connect to each light or accessory with a smaller feeder is a good plan. Lionel, LLC continued to manufacture and market trains and accessories in O scale under the Lionel brand and S gauge under the American Flyer brand. Price Received. It does not work with O27. However, in the future if you continue in the hobby and your roster expands you may acquire motive power which requires larger curves than what came with your set. For safety reasons, the batteries were soon replaced by a 110 volt transformer. If this happens, you will need another transformer to share the load. Problem with Rail King Protocol Sounds reversing unit, My D-190 Back in Action After Move to to NC, Caboose Identification - late era vintage, Continuing Saga Newtown Hardwrare House WIP. He directs production at Lionel, the premier model train manufacturer, and he istheformer president of theConrail HistoricalSociety. In addition to the wire itself, connectors like crimp-on terminals and terminal blocks must also be purchased in larger (and more expensive) sizes. Lionel developed and perfected its model designs and layouts during the Pre-War Era (1901-1942). And even when Lionel trains run on AC, they sometimes do some DC trickery. Just connect the jumper wires to the same connections on the back of your transformer as your original connections, and make sure that the wires are not crossed. DCC is less common in starter sets, but some are available. Sign up for new product releases, promotions, and more. If you want a station for your trains to stop at, there are both station platforms [#24159] as well as full sized stations [#14257]. Lionel made a lot of other transformers over the years. We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. Lots of good tips for building a layout from two of the most experienced people in the hobby. I can remember a time when a Lionel ZW would set you back $275. Take the hint. If you need a device that converts from different voltages so it can power another device, then a transformer will fulfill that role perfectly. What size Lionel transformer do I need? the amount of track is not what is important here. Older transformers I had this issue with are RW, 1033, KW, ZW.newer transformers were all made by MTH. But a 12-gauge solid wire is one strand, while a 12-gauge stranded wire may be made up of more than a dozen much smaller individual strands spun together. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 sheet of plywood, a 90 watt Lionel 1033 or 1042 is an excellent choice. I got a lot of lightweight transformers that came with starter sets over the years. Smaller feeder wires are used to bridge the small gap from the bus to the track. The typ miniature incandecents we use average about 100 ma of current each. The Lionel 1033 is a great choice for small or medium-sized layouts. Unless I'm all wet it sounded like there are somecompatibilityissues with certain locomotives versus manufacturer's transformer output wave forms. Service/Tested $55.00 1 bid $14.06 shipping 1d 6h LIONEL TYPE (KW) TRAINMASTER TRANSFORMER FOR PARTS OR RESTORATION $17.05 4 bids $19.95 shipping 9h 23m The Lionel Track & Power catalog is BACK with the latest information for more ways to make your layout even bigger, better and more powerful! We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. Anyway if it takes me 100 years to finish this thing one thing is for sure I will not have to worry about powering anything and everything. Mark. By creating alternate routes, more complex loops, and storage tracks, your trains will suddenly be even more interesting to watch and they will begin providing you the feeling that they are going somewhere and that you are running a small railroad. Expanding the basic oval from the set is the quickest way to add more interest to your trains. Is there anyway of saying how much track it will power? If you like, tell us more about yourself. And of course, Lionel also makes lots of figures to populate your town. I have one R transformer from which I run everything - but only 1 train at a time and a few accessories for a layout in a space about 24 by 10 ft. Get 20 articles about compact layouts and how to build them. It is not uncommon to see 50-year-old transformers still going strong on a model railroad. Some systems will use bluetooth technology enabling you to control the trains with your tablet or cell phone. Doug Murphy 'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers' Henry V. I am a person with a very active inner child. Professionals Need: Kindle Direct Publishing Indie Digital & Print Publishing Made Easy Amazon Photos Unlimited Photo Storage Free With Prime: Prime Video Direct For Lionel power the 45 watts is good for a 4 by 8 as a rule of thumb to compensate poor track you just use more feeders. Just not quite as much. We feature Lionel, American Flyer, MTH, Atlas O, Williams Trains, K-Line, Weaver Models, and more. Serving these devices with their own dedicated supply will not only allow you to supply them with a proper constant voltage, but it will also free your main power supply to handle the load of the train itself. A rule of thumb from the elders, (I had to go to the mountain top for this one), Add 2 more watts for Spankybird's fun-filled layout! There was a video by Mike Reagan from Lionel about better smoke output from a chopped wave transformer, but the pure sine wave didn't cause any operational issues. This is because the demands for power are becoming more than your transformer can handle. Been there, done that. Get DIY project ideas and easy-to-follow crafts to help you spruce up your space. Thus an appliance with a 15-ampere plug (the usual kind with parallel blades) must draw no more than 12 amperes. These small power supplies are designed to supply a few amps of power. This is different from the stranded wire in that the different individual wires, each with their color-coded insulation, is placed inside a secondary insulation wrap. The larger transformers could operate up to four trains independently. These are all good, dependable transformers from the postwar era that are easy to find today, have adequate wattages ranging from 90-270 watts, have a circuit breaker for safety and have a whistle controller. A small set that came with track, transformer, etc. Some DCC systems also recommend solid wire for certain applications. Lionel trains value varies depending on design, materials, and era. There are also numerous static accessories that do not operate but add visual interest to your layout, such as the #24219 girder bridge. Alternating current (AC) is the preferred power for most O Gauge three-rail trains as well as some two-rail systems in smaller scales. Classification/marker lights on the PRR steam engine, For Sale: Lionel 6-11127 Legacy Southern Pacific GS-4 Daylight, Lionel Bethlehem Steel slag car and ATLAS NYC Baggage car, Lionel O 2333790 TrainWorld & RBP Trains Chris Raines -Exclusive - Katy LEGACY ES44AC #2021, Converting MTH Rail king GS-4 PROTO 2 to ERR Cruise Commander, The Harpers Ferry Layout II - Backdrop panels completed. IF the Engineer is the guy that drives the locomotive then theTechnician must be the fireman is this correct? This is where the Lionel transformer comparisons should begin. They run on three rail track. He directs production at Lionel, the premier model train manufacturer, and he istheformer president of theConrail HistoricalSociety. Checklist Transformer Size Calculator When sizing a transformer, you need to know the kilovolt-amps (KVA) that your machine requires. The load voltage and load amps must be known to calculate KVA rating. I talk more in depth about the 1033 here. I covered the more common ones, but if you have another vintage Lionel transformer of more than 75 watts and its in good condition, theres no reason not to use it. $2799. All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. These bus wires are often more important than the size of the power supply itself in getting good results. My layout I am building is 5 sheets of 4x8 plywood and it will probaly take me 100 years to build it (I hope I have that much time left). Again, an independent power supply and distribution bus is a good idea for your switches. Ok our layout is 10 x 20 = 200 sq ft x 2 = 400 watts. But Lionel now produces four Track Expansion Sets, which expand this basic loop into something more exciting. Remember, the only silly question is the one that you did not ask. Atlas and Bachmann have the same transformers with 80 watt outputs as well that get good reviews and would be appropriate for a smaller layout. On the flip side, the new transformers do not seem to work as well with the prewar whistle tenders.Has anyone else noticed this anomaly? For Lionel power the 45 watts is good for a 4 by 8 as a rule of thumb to compensate poor track you just use more feeders. It's expensive, but the same factors that drove KW prices down are also driving ZW prices down. Here are a few: --The Lionel Fastrack Book, by Robert Schleicher. A Passenger consist can easily use more power than the engine. They have everything you need for a basic setup, and the larger ones are capable of running the smaller layouts you see in the train magazines, so they have some room for growth. The Lionel Multi-control 1033 is a 90 watt transformer produced from 1948 to 1956. --I need a station for the train to stop at. I've got around 320 ft of track between all of the mainline, sidings, etc and I don't have any problems running my engines anywhere on the layout. Just get a Lionel #12053 Accessory wire set and enough extra wire to connect from the wire set back to your transformer [speaker wire works well]. This set also includes an uncoupling track section, which will disconnect cars from one another at the touch of a button, and a bumper, which keeps cars from rolling off the end of the track. Get DIY project ideas and easy-to-follow crafts to help you spruce up your space. Smaller layouts (a typical 4 foot by 8 foot being a good example) can usually get by with Number16 since the length of the run from the power supply to the track is never more than a few feet. Lionel makes a seemingly infinite number of cars to in a variety of colors, types, and road names. You may never use all the amps, but it's usually cheaper to grow into a power supply than to continually upgrade. Yes, but the train will probably run too fast, depending on the output voltage of the transformer. The accessory activation track (#12029) is used to activate Lionel trackside accessories. If youre comfortable doing some work yourself, you can buy a fixer-upper, and my informational links will tell you more about fixing one yourself. The insulation on the outside of the wire also varies greatly. If you fried a wire going to the track it may not be a transformer problem. You don't want to try to solder even Number 16 gauge wire right to your rails, however. It would be advantageous if OGR magazine would put an article together comparing the major manufacturers transformers output waveform compatibility/ incompatibilitywith the various manufacturer's locomotives - Atlas O, Weaver, 3rd Rail, MTH , Lionel etc and conventional , DCS , TMCC, Legacy command control. $7.89 delivery Feb 2 - 6. Of all the questions fielded by the staff of Classic Toy Trains, inquiries regarding layout wiring top the list.While you might expect numerous questions regarding complex techniques or new technologies, CTT. Will get a Z4000 one day [this summer probably, unless I find a good deal on an older ZW] just to say I have one. If you found this post informative or helpful, please share it! Because the runs are short and power demands so low, this fine wire poses no safety threat. Plan on using the KW's for the big layout and 1033's like I did before. Trainz carries a variety of books that build upon the information listed above. Subscribers, sign in to access exclusive content. If your layout is bigger than 48, you may actually find trains run a bit better with a KW than with a smaller transformer. A solid and stranded wire of the same gauge will be the same total diameter. You should take care, however, to replace worn cords and wires. They're controlled with a simple handheld remote control and run on easy-to-connect plastic track. [:)]. This wire is very fine and can be found in many color combinations. Most feeders will be only a few inches long so the smaller diameter wire will not be a problem. Check out my O scale layout progress at MTF, does track consume power? There are a few standards when it comes to the color-coding. Everything you need to get going is included, its reliable, and setup is usually very easy. This type of transformer is cheap, its reliable, and its easy to find. I am currently running about 40 bulbs, which at 0.1 A each total 4 amps! The preferred choice for wiring control panels is telephone or telecommunications wire. Another classic is the Automatic Gateman. Get updates and special offers via email from Trains.com brands! The greatest transformer Lionel made in the postwar era was the 270 watt Lionel ZW. These transformers are much cheaper than they were even just a few years ago, but that just makes them a bigger bargain today. Its expensive, but the same factors that drove KW prices down are also driving ZW prices down. If the system's train transformer is run in Europe with a step-down transformer alone (converting only voltage from 230V to 115V AC at a 50 Hz), it may not operate as intended. I am assuming that your starter set came with either o27, brown ties, or 031, black ties, track and it runs well as is. If you plan to just run MTH go with their DCS system if you plan to have a number of different engines or the MTH DCS Remote Commander which is limited to running only one engine at a time. The car on the left is scale, and the one on the right is the classic, underscale size. As Paul said, the power needed doesn't have anything to do with the distance; but the voltage needed does. Doug, there's definitely room for the liberal arts approach to the hobby--I have a journalism degree; how I became a computer technician was pretty much an accident. That transformer will only prolly handle 1 engine and depending on how long it is will depend on how many extra feeders you will need around the layout. In three-rail systems, the outer rails are both grounded, and the center rail is "hot.". The least expensive power supply you should consider is the Lionel CW80 Transformer; you can buy a new one for about $150 or a used on one eBay for about $60. 10 Easy Ways to Improve a Christmas Train Display, Wiring a Model Railroad for Block Operation, How to Build and Wire Reverse Loops for Model Trains, How to Choose the Right Transformer for Your Model Trains, Compatibility of Different Model Train Brands, HO Scale Track Plans for Model Train Layouts, buildings, streets, and other scenic accessories. First, a few general notes about choosing wire. Used 1033's for sidings and the switching yard its self. Access to this requires an OGR Forum Supporting Membership. Lionel and other train manufacturers have worked hard to make adding to a set easy, affordable, and fun. Do not operate the CW-80 Transformer with a damaged cord, plug, or case. Scale cars almost always have the number 7 as the second digit in their number [17623, 27241, etc]. Model train power falls into one of three categories. If you want a spur track to store an extra car or two, Lionel makes another expansion set [#12044] that does just that: Note that this set includes one switch which is the track section that makes the track diverge onto two separate routes. Regardless of your scale, all model railroad switch machines fall into one of two categories, a slow-motion electric motor or a "twin coil" relay. Does Lionel still make standard gauge trains? You must be signed in to continue. Heavier insulation not only adds to the cost of the wire but also makes it harder to bend. In the middle range, Lionel made a lot of other transformers. As far as new transformers go, someone else may be able to help more than I can. Please see our article on Fastrack here for more information. The choice of a control system is somewhat, but not necessarily, dependent on which manufacturers engines you prefer or have the most of. The good news is, Lionel made a lot of good transformers over the years. Lionel 1033 90 Watt Multi-control Transformer (102) $9.99 1 bid $16.00 shipping 2d 9h Lionel Type Z 250 Watt Transformer & One 167 Whistle Controllers. The KW has constant voltage outputs for accessories, the ZW don't have that feature just four handles for supplying power to four tracks or accessories if you like, both have whistle & direction feature. The transition section (#12040) allows you to connect conventional O Gauge track to FasTrack. --Toy Train Collecting and Operating, by John Grams. Retrofitting a subway line into existing benchwork - and are subway sets still being made? The higher powered units would not meet todays safety standards as issued by Underwriters Laboratories. Digital command control systems (DCC) uses digital information to control the electrical power to the train. Lionel 1033 90 watt Transformer Postwar from 1950s-60s Whistle, Direction. The first is the traditional or classic size, which are the cars that match starter sets. As you progress with your layout there are a lot of people here who will help you with any questions you have. Transformers are designed to fail if a short in the secondary or control side occurs. what size lionel transformer do i need. Here are some simple definitions for these electrical terms: Most power supplies will be labeled as to the scales they are meant to handle. It can run four tracks at one time, so you layout can grow. Lionel Trains Pocket Price Guide 1901-2022. You can use bus and feeder wires to more evenly distribute the power over your track. Ran 6 motors [MPC's]. Keeping in mind that I will likely continue to add to the layout as my addiction develops! Never Enough Room, Time or Money for all the Trains! I went to mth Z1000, jason's train shop has the best price's I have seen for these. I know my train club had an issue with conventional locomotives not running properly on a layout with DCS and TMCC and apparently solved it by replacing a Lionel transformer with an MRC transformer that puts out a pure sine wave. Lionel is also introducing a new 180 watt transformer to accompany the 80 watt CW 80. There have been issues with chopped waveform transformers, i.e. When they were manufactured by The American Flyer Manufacturing Company, they were made in Standard Gauge and a version of "O" gauge. If you want to connect ten landscape lights to a magnetic transformer, and the lights use 30 watts each, you would need a 375 watt transformer. The two types of cars will connect together just fine, but when side-by-side in a train, they may look a bit odd. For a passenger train with lighted cars, getting a little more power isnt a bad idea. The CW-80 Transformer was meant to operate on 120-volt, 60-Hertz power. If you like fixing things, fixing an old transformer is rewarding. And that means theyre affordable. In most cases, because we are dealing with relatively low voltage and amperage and in a normally stable temperature and humidity climates, our wiring does not require any extra insulation. electronically controlled outputs. They give a true 180 watts and have excellent electronic breakers. Note: if you proceed, you will no longer be following, $12.00 per 12 Months (plus tax if applicable). While it is tempting to go with the biggest wire possible to guarantee excess capacity, there are drawbacks to putting in more than you need. The farther from the transformer the more resistance in the rails and your engine will slow down. They are reasonably durable and were popular in their day, which means there are still a lot of them floating around so they tend to be inexpensive. Members enjoy 15% off any purchase in our store. (using 4 of the 180 watt Lionel bricks) That's 10 amps per channel on all 4 channels. Beginners Ask Trains New trains; old transformers. DCC decoders are one good example where the wire colors are critical. Right now I am running 8 motors on one KW [the new one I found] and got the old one for reserve. This diagram shows all of the controls and the pinout for the Lionel RW transformer. editors report that most of the wiring issues they address involve basic principles of electricity - the stuff that Ben Franklin played with when he flew his kite. Here are some guidelines for the most common wiring jobs you'll find. If they do, follow their recommendations. I really doubt you will need more than that. Below weve listed these transformers in numerical order in the Numerical Index. The Atlas and Bachmann 80 watt transformers, they are one and the same, can be had for around $75.00. I'll take this information and run with it to help get me started. A bigger transformer is better and always looks nicer too! I paid $75 + shipping for mine a year ago. But were talking the trains that are in the absolute best condition and might not have ever run on the track. Forgot about light bulbs since I don't got some yet. Lionel 1033 Transformer Renovation Part I Peter Fenzel 306 subscribers Subscribe 11K views 3 years ago Lionel 1033 Transformer gets cleaned up, a new power cord, a new whistle rectifier. Many load and unload freight from specially designed cars as well. Again, if you have a very long run between switches, going a little larger is less likely to cause problems with voltage loss. And both of them give more wattage per handle than a KW or ZW. Enter your e-mail address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by e-mail. Lots of good information for building any size O Gauge layout. I suggest that you proactively lay an 10-2 AWG NM cable (or at least 12-2) along the track and tap into it as needed to keep the voltage up. But a 12-gauge solid wire is one strand, while a 12-gauge stranded wire may be made up of more than a dozen much smaller individual strands spun together. A locomotive on a mile-long loop will draw as many amps as it does on a 4x8 platform. You have pretty much pointed up the major problem, everything is different. All Lionel transformer comparisons should include the common 1033, RW, LW, KW and ZW transformers. UpBright 18V AC/DC Adapter Compatible with Lionel O Gauge Fastrack 10" Remote Control Terminal Straight LionChief System Track 6-1923100 HKYF45-180230T-US DC18V 2300mA 18VDC Power Supply Cord Charger. You can also minimize voltage drop at the rail joints by soldering the rails together. The Lionel 1033 is a great choice for small or medium-sized layouts. Adding lights to buildings, streets, and other scenic accessories usually do not require anywhere near the amperage demand of the trains themselves. A starter set is the best way to start with the train hobby. 40-200 20 Watt DC Transformer - Small DC transformer suitable for powering a single HO diesel or steam locomotive equipped with Proto-Sound 3.0. Understanding Electrical Supplies and Controls. Replies and comments they make will be collapsed/hidden by default. M3103. If you have a very long run, you may want to consider Number 12 wire.