brings a lot of. What's interesting about Bobcats is here in the Northeast we have some very large bobcats. The tail leave is a giveaway but not everybody gets to see the tail. Thank you. So that's the specimen that you find going long distances. It all used to be based on measurable physical traits color, skull size, paw size, etc but now its based on whether an animal can be shown to be genetically distinct from others. And a lot of people around the county airport have seen a lot of pilots coming in said they saw huge. Tate said that while a mountain lion sighting in New Hampshire isn't likely, it's not impossible. Peter Biello: Wow. Caller: So I've been telling this story for five years or so and very few people believe me. Peter Biello: Let's talk to Ron and where Ron thanks very much for calling. So now what's going on. Do you get a lot of these these these things that end up being hoaxes. The views expressed in this program are those of the individuals and not those of an HP are its board of trustees or its underwriters. So Pat you field a lot of calls about people seeing or reportedly seeing mountain lions. Caller: It had to be a mountain lion convinced I was about 30. From: Boomerdog in OK 08-Oct-07 So I've been convinced the whole time that I saw a big cougar plume or whatever you want to call it standing there in the road in Greenfield. Really appreciate it. Peter Biello: Ok weird question but do they make good pets. Peter Biello: Well I want to ask Patrick about one of these stories a few years ago you had a story about someone who claimed to. Peter Biello: The number is 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. Have a photo. If it's someone that has an illegal captive animal that is accustomed to humans those leave a lot of evidence because they want to go around humans to find food meaning they're used to being fed by humans. Residents believe cougars still roam New Hampshire's forests. Do we have native species that could have exhibited this type of behavior leaving leaving a deer carcass up in a tree. And trying to figure out the little pieces to identify him so I bring up the names the differences but the appearances can be confusing for some. I've seen him in the woods and that was not a bobcat but I was looking at. But the state always denies it, and none of us know why they deny it. So one thing I'll add. You treat it as if it's a sincere situation. 44-H Links. It is also known as cougar, panther, mountain lion, and puma, though catamount is the preferred regional vernacular. I think that you probably are. Patrick Tate: In theory it's a passing ball of a court and it goes wherever the bottom Ball wants to go. So I know it's another unconfirmed report but you string enough of these together. NHFG Wildlife Biologist Patrick Tate identifies this cat as a bobcat. Pat ruse and he was sampling doing DNA samples from cats in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. www.wildlife.state.nh.us, Buy or Renew Your Saltwater Fishing License, Great Bay National Estuarine Research Reserve. Pat do they typically just move around a lot. Caller: I got home to my wife that a gene that you should have seen the cat. What's going on. Reports without physical evidence are not dismissed, however Fish and Game cannot verify a sighting report without physical evidence. And it's not really strong. Patrick Tate: And there's one other way to model that is the same animal. There's no attraction. Let's talk to Mike in Webster. It's not a skinny rope like tail like a housecat. And I I have this great text history of New Hampshire game and fir bears and I think by Helen Silver who used to work for fish and game and she sort of I kind eyes this animal in one of the quotes from 1892 stating that the catamaran was the most ferocious of all the wild beasts of New Hampshire his great size strength and agility of movement together with his formidable weapons rendered him the terror both of man and beast. Caller: Oh yeah. Patrick Tate: If I could just say one thing. Seems reasonable! HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. OK. Rick van de Poll: Rick and I would add that if a mountain lion male takes up residence and successfully finds a female as pets there's gonna be a lot more evidence there will be like deer carcasses up in trees and territorial marking and claw marks and tracks and it you know dispersal is gonna be very tough to see or observed but residential parrots a totally different story. Patrick Tate: So one thing I'd say is DNA would definitely identify an animal animal's Mark line or not. Mountain lions don't usually travel more than 100 miles from where they are born. Each person had their own copy and now it was identify the trees the species of tree matched. You need a permit to have that. Rick van de Poll: Well education is the real important thrust of of what all of us do as biologists and Game Managers and to make sure that a things like what Sam was saying that in spite of what you believe the mountain lions will not eat your children they will not steal your pets from your backyard and they will not necessarily be seen by you unless you're extremely lucky. They lived perhaps elsewhere in New England and they were just passing through and happened to have an encounter of some sort. Peter Biello: So Patrick today Fish and Game no downward pressure on you to deny the existence at all costs of mountain lions here in New Hampshire. Is that typically what was happening there. Somewhere the way they travel the things they do they're going to leave evidence. Wed love to be part of the first verified sighting. So so they're just a very resilient species and they're pretty they're pretty neat. And that's this morning at 10:00 here on NH PR. Peter Biello: Well hey Rob. Anyways after three weeks I finally found the image on line on a field and stream photo contest and the explanation in the end was the person that set the camera out with another individual and they believed that someone who knew of the camera location saw the similarities put the can't picture on their SD card so it looked like that camera recorded the image that is. John thanks. Over a period of a year and a half, this Mountain Lion left DNA evidence in at least four states. And Rick van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England. Something along those lines. Rick van de Poll: 80 90. Absolutely. And so so with their limited staff and limited budget that is that is more and more limited every year because you know fewer people are buying hunting and fishing licenses. I noticed it had a really big sweeping tail that kind of curled up behind it and all but still at that point because everyone says there's no mountain lions here. So do they. They reported seeing the big tail and everything everything. The western mountain lion lives in a more of a grassland open area now so to blend in with a very lighted situation here in the Northeast we are very shadowy dark situation because of the forest and our cats wear a darker brownish reddish color than what they were and they were also smaller than what the western mountain lion is. There's just one subspecies of North American mountain lion. So for those reasons I don't believe the standards are too high the amount of game cameras out on the landscape to record images department alone through contracts had over 150 throughout the state biologists go through various deer yards throughout the year. Sam Evans-Brown: Well first I want to sort of explain why what the theory is but then also throw a bit of cold water on it because I don't think there's much much logic behind it but essentially is that if fish and game were to acknowledge that there was a population of Mount lions in the state there's a chance that something like a listing under the federal Endangered Species Act might happen and then there'd be you know some they'd have to put a plan in place to protect the species there'd be you know restrictions put on development. Rick van de Poll: Rick van de Poll so I was a non-believer as well. We'll push great photos to the front page. Now that to me seemed to indicate that they had done the secondary workup that in my opinion proved the existence of probably a disperse or possibly from South Dakota like the one in 2011. So there is definitely no downward pressure by anyone. and territorial animals are much more inclined to create a problem with passer bys than dispersing animals in fact I'd be totally shocked if a dispersal would encounter with a human purposefully unless they had already had some type of training to do so. Sam Evans-Brown: But I mean the video I had been sent was you know a recording of a animal growling but it was in slow motion and when I asked the person why is this in slow motion the denied that it was so there's a lot of weird stuff that happens in regards to people claiming they've seen they've seen these things. I wanted to get your thoughts on the mystique of the mountain lion start with you Rick. Right. SUE Morse naturalist and science director for the organization keeping track. And so maybe before I go to you recommend I ask you Patrick Tate is the standard too high. Patrick Tate: So I'm not sure what subspecies of cat they're using to differentiate by those markings but once she was describing the White other face in the black. Chartered: 1973 . 235 or nhandy@ledgertranscript.com. So for me as a person who's had the Bobcats right off my grits similar carries sticks to a bobcat The Long Tail obviously very different but those facial markings were overlapping for me. So take care of this problem. Peter Biello: And then it ran away okay. This is a machine-generated transcript, and may contain errors. I mean so what what is the practical change that it would bring to New Hampshire if any. Sam. So here we have you know a very qualified biologist who who found a print took a plaster cast found a scat send it to a university. Peter Biello: So let's say Rick that it was confirmed that there that there are mountain lines here in New Hampshire. Does not test random Scouts. Thank you. The most common areas to see mountain lions in Arizona are in places of rocky and mountainous terrain. Or years or so. Is this kind of a typical story. There was no sign of it. Are there Mountain Lions in NH? The big cat has been extinct here since the mid-1800s. Chapter X, Predators, Panther (Mountain Lion) From History of NH Game and Furbearers by Helenette Silver, Research Clerk, NH Fish and Game Dept. DNA from scat or from fur, a clear track that is confirmed by an expert, or a photo that clearly shows a mountain lion. I just don't understand the mechanism for how that would happen. Okay. Patrick Tate: So Cougar Mountain Lion katama. However if if and when it does happen it takes up a lot of resources looking at that situation and identifying what's going on because when you start out you don't know it's a hoax. So I want to start the program with a comment from someone who is not in the studio with us today. Despite numerous reports, the NH Fish and Game Department continues to have no physical evidence of mountain lion presence in the state. But before I go any further I want to say we do not have sufficient game. So what those ranges. Reviewing the evidence, the U.S. Join as a $8 per month sustainer and get our brand-new owl umbrella! And because you know things flow downhill and I was pushed to go investigate it more and met with the individual two or three times and there was a bunch of inconsistencies about the photograph. John Holt's ideas were at first dismissed but he refused to be silent. How to Report a Possible Mountain Lion Sighting. By Eric Orff. Michael Brindley is our program manager our producers our Jessica Hunt and Christina Phillips and our theme music was composed by Bob Lord. Thank you very much for being here. They kill big animals. So. Peter Biello: Worth mentioning if we're scaring anybody question a mysterious mountain lions lurking perhaps in someone's backyard. But along the lines of the conspiracy theories as you mentioned earlier there there was a bit of a sense on behalf of what I'll call the promo online community who felt that fishing gain maybe not even so much in a spoken policy but maybe sort of an unspoken policy did not want to find themselves in a situation where they had to spend money to create a management plan and so forth. We live around Cold Springs Campground and it was undeniably a mountain lion. Thanks for calling. I mean no doubt a seen Bobcat seen his stuff. Do cougars live in New England? So yeah as far as wildlife species that put deer and trees know there aren't any others that I know of that put deer in trees just just humans might be responsible for that. And as the biologist who's gonna stand on this and if I'm going to say this is a proven picture I need to be able to stand on it so soundly and have the evidence so I going to go through it with a fine tooth comb kept picking pieces apart trying to answer these pieces. Patrick Tate: I've from all the situations I've read and learned about wildlife. Peter Biello: Ok. Peter Biello: So if they were female mountain lions here they would be more males just because that's what they're looking for. And sometimes I've seen pictures of those where it's the question is What is that is that a bobcat. Infinite Scroll Enabled. Less successful males roam further. That's pretty elaborate. But if people are still seeing mountain lions, why is the state and federal government seeking to COVER IT UP!? Yeah 13 to 15 years ago 13 to 15 years ago. Select image for larger view. And they used to be this whole list of the different subspecies of mountain lion and it has since been reduced to just to the North American and the South American. When you talk about a bobcat Bobcat maybe 80 90 pounds and then a mountain lion could be between 130 and 180 pounds. Caller: I cannot recall or see the tail in my in my image of it. Is there something particularly hospitable about New Hampshire Forests that make them want to come here. John. You could trace that was this same cat from point to point to point. Patrick Tate: I've had hunters hang deer carcasses forbidding wildlife entries. Mark Elbroch doesnt think so. Caller: And then there's the Lily Pond Road and then there's a six foot tall fence. Thank you very much for that story really appreciate it. To date, the Department has not received any verifiable evidence (photographic or DNA)of mountain lions existing in New Hampshire.