We relate. : apparently tom was really hurt when 4/20 happened and grieved heavily because he felt like him and dylan were best friends, and had especially gotten closer in the months prior. Apologies in advance if this question has already been answered. Press J to jump to the feed. Not to cure it, to manage it. If there is a hell, they are there, burning. Klebold's body was . Dylan wrote an essay about a school shooting that disturbed his teacher enough that it was referred to the school counselor. Dylan, Cullen writes, was depressed. Dylan Klebold had written about a "god-like figure" dressed in black, brutally gunning down fraternity-type boys. The real tragedy of Columbine isn't the deaths, it's the failure to work to change our culture (from bullying to gun control) in the aftermath. Tom had a huge hobby for fixing up BMW's. The big trifecta of psychopathology. . Dylan ended the shooting which saw 13 . He didn't even say hi to Tom or ask how he was. 5. Hell, Klebold and a bunch of their friends went to the prom the weekend before the killings. Born: 4-9-1981. It's always about management. I wanted an apology. I havent done anything for which I need forgiveness, Susan Klebold said. You're far too stupid to ever see that though. The interview is set to air on "20/20" this Friday, coinciding with . Oprah asked the teachers to describe Harris/Klebold, the teachers talked about how they didn't fit in, wore trenchcoats, seemed troubled and dangerous, and so on. Its exactly people like you that caused this massacre to happen in the first place. Sorry. Bit of a warning, it's a PDF file. (The OP was looking for books on personality mirroring and other techniques sociopaths use). There are a lot more R&V followers out there than you would think. You have no right to disrupt someone else's place of business. I could have built an atomic bomb in my bedroom and they wouldn't have known or cared. There are a myriad of factors to consider. How are parents supposed to know everything that goes on in their children's minds? Sue is from a prominent Jewish community . Or it's everything. Eric and Dylan worked extremely hard to conceal their machinations. VOTN, I have Cullen's book but have not yet started it. Other than that, we don't have much indication that Tom was anything other than a good father. It's about a half an hour before our little judgment day. This week, one of them, Sue Klebold mother of shooter Dylan Klebold - breaks the silence with ABC's Diane Sawyer. After-hours phone calls to Times officials were not returned, and Brooks did not immediately respond to an e-mail request for comment. There are also certain traits that lead to a school itself being more or less at risk for a shooting event: an inflexible culture, inequitable discipline, tolerance for disrespectful behavior, and a code of silence (p. 315). By the time of the shooting, facing his intense feelings of alienation, she says his journals show the only emotions Dylan could connect to were anger and hopelessness. But even if you work with them to avoid their *own* pain, that's a start. It would be satisfying to blame the parents. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris killed 13 people on April 20, 1999, before taking their own lives. I was just messing with you all a little bit in my other posts. The perpetrator often has faced peer or social rejection, endured bullying, has anger about the bullying, and lacks the social or coping skills to deal with these issues. Eric said his father never asked whether the caller even had the right phone number. For a couple reasons. In a video-diary-style recording, Dylan stated his parents had been good to him. Both parents were gentle, educated people, who named their two boys after romantic poets x97 Dylan Thomas and Lord Byron x97 seemed to have given Dylan the message that so many of us recognize from our own childhoods: high school is hard, it will get better from here, wex92re here for you, we promise. Dylan Klebold's father, is Lutheran, and said her son . In my opinion, what went on in their home led to Columbine.. Dylan was remembered as a Cub Scout who attended church with his family. Funny how things cycle.". Both were from Columbus, Ohio and went to Ohio State University. I've always felt sorry for Dylan, who seemed so lost and depressed. This girl went on screaming for full minutes at a time - nobody came out of the house and told her to be quiet. Don't believe me? He was steady enough on his feet to run, but not to stop himself from losing balance and falling, which he did, forehead-first right into the metal bed frame. I've linked an article from Nature magazine about it. . When early word came that the Trench Coat Mafia may be involved in the shooting, Tom ran downstairs to look for Dylans trench coat, which he couldnt find, Lozow said. It's getting late; Eric looks at his watch and says it's 1:28 AM on March 15. However, there is credible, tangible, measurable, and repeatable evidence that there are some people, for whatever reason, have their brains wired differently. Parents were not paying attention to what was in plain sight, or didn't want to deal with it. Every parent has flaws and every parent makes mistakes, but to me they mostly come across as a very normal family like there are millions all over the world. Sue suggests that for someone as sensitive to humiliation and loss of control as Dylan, these types of events may have made a big influence on him, and created a bond between the boys. multiple newspapers and media outlets in the days after reported dylan and his father having the kind of relationship where, when dylan would come home from school, they would share a snack and read the sports section of the newspaper together. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Teachers have no training in mental disorders or warning signs. Of course there is no formula for determining whether someone will turn out to be a school shooter, but I definitely agree with the sentiment that it is important to look at how these things happen. What happened isn't their fault. ", Dylan: (talks about how his parents taught him to be independent and self-reliant) "I appreciate that.". For not seeing that, I will never forgive myself.. How they could live with themselves is beyond me. His father Wayne was an Air force pilot, his mother Kathy was a homemaker and his brother Kevin earned a masters degree and married. For an optimal experience visit our site on another browser. A Further Examination: Sue Klebolds case study of her son, Dylan Klebold, Trauma and Suicide within Law Enforcement, Mental Health and Mass Murders: The Connection between Trauma and School Shootings, Mental Health Treatment in Correctional Facilities, Forensic Behavior Analysis: Self Care in the CJ Field, Trauma in Female Juvenile Inmates and Delinquents. What is something of a mystery to me is why things reached the point they did. "American Tragedy" premieres at the Boston Film Festival on Thursday at 7 p.m. Subject: Re: The Klebolds are DIVORCED Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:17 pm. It was very easy to read despite being a difficult topic. One young doctor said, "I don't know if you can teach compassion, but you surely can teach the opposite! He went to his senior prom and based on his journal had a wonderful time, and was invested in his future to such an extent that he chose a college and made a trip out to Arizona to look at dorm rooms with his father. GOLDEN, Colo. (AP) _ Less than three months before his deadly rampage at Columbine High School, Dylan Klebold was described by a probation officer as intelligent and capable of making any dream happen, according to juvenile records made public Friday. Dylan Klebold (Dylan Bennet Klebold) was born on 11 September, 1981 in Lakewood, Colorado, United States, is a 20th century American mass murderers. Making intentions known ahead of time? By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. "In the very . The teachers at Columbine all seemed incredibly disengaged. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that most serial killers/mass murderers had excessive discipline rather than lenient upbringings. That doesn't mean that it's always successful. On April 20, 1999, two teenage gunmen kill 13 people in a shooting spree at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado, south of Denver. Tom and I failed to recognize these conditions and to curtail the influences violent entertainment, his friendship with Eric that exacerbated them. In 1997 Wayne Harris, Eric's father, started logging all of his son's problems. Most shouldn't have ever been parents in the first place. [quote]I can't believe Oprah canceled her Columbine show today. [] Asking why only makes us feel hopeless. Even after he broke into a car and stole stuff, there was no monitoring of his time spent making pipe bombs or firing guns or playing video games that glorified killing. Eric was born in Wichita, Kansas. R16 = Female with daddy issues who doesn't take kindly to unkind remarks toward her fellow twats. "They believe that what they call the "toxic culture" of the school the worship of jocks and the tolerance of bullying is the primary force that set Dylan off. Hail Reb &VoDka!!!!!!!!! Dylan Klebold along with his friend, Eric Harris, committed the Columbine High School massacre 17 years ago. They opened fire on students and teachers at Columbine High School in Columbine, Colorado, on the Nazi leader's birthday in 1999, killing 12 classmates and a teacher and wounding 23 people before taking their own lives. No one could control him. Harris parents, Wayne and Kathy Harris, have never spoken to reporters. Boston: Pearson. Reviews: 81% of readers found this page helpful, Address: Suite 369 9754 Roberts Pines, West Benitaburgh, NM 69180-7958, Hobby: Worldbuilding, Shopping, Quilting, Cooking, Homebrewing, Leather crafting, Pet. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold are once more in the family room of the Harris home. I just wanted to apologize to you guys for any crap this might instigate as far as (inaudible) or something. Sue Klebold's son was one of the shooters in a mass killing at Columbine High School 19 years ago. When I was 16 my parents sure as hell would have known if I had firearms in my possession or were building pipe bombs anywhere near our home. Empathy; not so much. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Klebold and Harris were in a juvenile diversion program for breaking into a van and stealing tools and other items in January 1998. Eric says if either the clerk or his father had asked just one question, "we would have been fucked.". Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold was the deadliest high school shooting in U.S. history, . I couldn't put the book down, and even though I thought I knew the ending of the story, or at least most of it, I have to admit, the last couple of chapters, specifically the one detailing the Basement Tapes, and the one about what had happened leading up to Harris and Klebold committing suicide were fucking frightening. Her son's name became famous when in 1999 he became one of two direct perpetrators of the deadliest high school shooting in U.S. history. (Video) My son was a Columbine shooter. Dylan was a depressed teenager with many mental issues. I go into Target and there are children shrieking like banshees in the shopping cart and the mother never says "Be quite. They are particularly good at it. Ed Berg, a former business associate who has talked to Tom Klebold since the shootings, said Dylan's father has come to grips with the boy's crime. If only we would have asked the right questions." I think it's really odd that Tom Said Dylan was His best friend and Dylan Kind of didn't seem to care at all about his dadso one of them Had a really wrong perception. - You're all over this shit aren't ya? They always have, and unless we can change it (which might be very "Pandora") they always will. She also spent a lot of time conferencing with my teachers to know how well I was doing in school and she was interested in my assignments. In a story for Sundays editions of The Post, Lozow related the first moments after the Klebolds learned of the shooting. But you also can't argue with success. She didn't do anything that would be perceived as spying. These kids were calculating, smart and intent on destruction. Attention was paid. Any pix of the monster creators? By his junior and senior years, Dylans parents knew something was wrong. ". But they sure jumped at the chance to be on Oprah! They made sure to know who their kids were spending time with, and made sure they knew and felt that they were loved. As Dylan entered adolescence, he became a bit more complicated. Susan Francis Klebold ( ne Yassenoff; born March 25, 1949) is an American author and activist. Good thing I did because Dylan hasn't exactly risen to a level of responsibility in my absence. He lays bare the callous brutality of mastermind Eric Harris and the quavering, suicidal Dylan Klebold, who went to the prom three days earlier and obsessed about love in his journal. No, they hated the gay boys almost as much as they hated the jocks. Yes, it's really terrible when there is the free-flow of information and ideas, isn't it? I read recently that neither set of parents ever spoke publicly or to the media. The second of the Columbine killers, Dylan Klebold was a "born genius" who, despite a sensitive disposition, experienced explosions of rage (most often brought on by failure or humiliation,) suicidal tendencies, a disdain for the "zombie"-like human race, and a suggestibility upon which the psychopathic . There will always be apologists for the Harris parents who incredibly state that parents have no control over their children. While in class we have made abundantly clear that most people with mental health issues are non-violent, Dylans depression and suicidality fits the school shooter pattern. Looking back on the textbooks suggested traits of school shooters, weve already seen above how Dylan does actually map onto many of them. Harris was a "budding psychopath, a person without a conscience," he said. I don't think it's fair to either demonize or absolve them, but from studies of psychopathy, even the best parenting can't make that be turned off. Yes, it's the fifth anniversary of when you met your partner and you go out to dinner and somebody's child is relentlessly screaming throughout dinner that's fine. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Talking about the home video they took of that day, Its absolutely stunning how normal Dylan seems (p. 235). Harris and Klebold met at Ken Caryl Middle School during their seventh grade year. From what we cam tell, the Harris family took a laissez-faire attitude towards Eric. That's the first thing. comes from the shittiest of shitty, lazy parent(s). He was also very close friends with the killers. Ericx92s parents, too, did what parents do. His parents didnt yet know to monitor his internet usage. He was one of the teens behind the Columbine High School Massacre in 1999. The parents of Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan Klebold, 17, remained in seclusion Wednesday as a global media horde encamped at their houses after the murderous rampage Tuesday at Columbine High School. You can't learn to feel if you don't. Unfortunately, Eric was able to channel Dylans experiences and psychology into a violent act that would take not only his own life, but the lives of many others. People need to understand this could have happened to them, he said. Why does anyone think that parents know or care what their children do? With these many, many factors in mind, I turn to A Mothers Reckoning. We monitored what movies our boys could see, and put them to bed with stories and prayers and hugs (p. 61). Dylan Bennett Klebold. When it came to intervention, these people had no idea what they should have been doing. [quote]But even if you work with them to avoid their *own* pain, that's a start. Dave Cullen, in a radio interview that I've been listening to, is very quick to point out that psychopathy doesn't equate automatically with murder. if anyone can correct or find the sources for me that would be greatly appreciated! So we're back to Pavlov and Skinner. February 12, 2016 11:56am. [quote]Dang, I'm unemployed and I wanted to watch today's Oprah about Columbine. Forum Reputation : 52. of course, tom has never come out and publicly spoken the way sue has; from my personal observation he seems to be a little more torn up about it than she. Sue acknowledges that before Columbine, she would have reacted to news of some horrific act by wondering what that persons parents must have been like to allow someone to turn out like that. FULL DOCO - PT 2 OF 3, 2. We are ich bin auslander! And for a best friend, did they spend much time together at all? She hyped it up as a must see and an insight to what really happened. Other way around. After I wrote a column a few weeks ago about the 1999 shootings at Columbine High School, I got e-mail from Tom Klebold, the father of Dylan Klebold, one of the . It is also true that environmental stimuli can make the difference between a kid with "problems" and a kid who becomes a "monster." Unfortunately, we only have her word today as to what went on in the home. Eric, on the other hand, was a psychopath, Cullen concludes, and he spends 400 pages convincingly making his case. Tom Klebold said they hope to understand someday why the shooting happened. Serious victim mentality with both of them. I can handle them "spending too much time on the killers", but unfortunately I recognize there are too many whackjobs in this country who would just see it as glorification. Sue Klebold is the mother of Dylan Klebold, one of the two shooters who committed the Columbine High School massacre, murdering 12 students and a teacher. OP, I agree with you. It would drive me insane to have my kids behave like that, but some people are utterly oblivious to the cacaphony and strife being caused by their children. That's why Dylan got one for Christmas 99, it was Tom's way of finding something to bond with with Dylan. It was weird. in CJ 725, Tagged: columbine, mass murderer, mental illness, school shootings. This is my (completely layman's) opinion, but I've always figured that we have more or less tamped down the "How" of the brain, but we're still working on the "Why" of the brain. However, most people know they are guilty as sin and should burn in hell with their son. i cannot remember nor can i find the source for this but im half certain its in his interview in the 11k. Subject: Re: Dylan's house google earth Tue May 10, 2016 10:18 pm. I am certain that Sue no longer lives there but she still does visit the house as two Columbiners took a Columbine/E &D tour" in Jan .or Feb and saw Sue outside the house as they drove by. To me its really hard to determine the quality of a relationship based on how teenagers feel about it. I don't believe that Tom and Sue were annoying parents. Sue Klebold is the mother of Dylan Klebold, one of the two shooters at Columbine High School in 1999 who killed 15 people before ending their own lives, a tragedy that saddened and galvanized the nation. Family & Personal Life. The mother of Columbine killer Dylan Klebold says she thinks every day about the people her . People that want to pretend that the parents were just innocent distant bystanders who had no responsibility for anything that happened are repulsive. I didnt hear it.. I couldn't do that to my family and I admit that I would never have the guts. The most undereducated, illiterate, ridiculous people become teachers. His negative traits werent out of the ordinary either, really: he was very sensitive to embarrassment, which sometimes led to anger; and he was perhaps a little too independent, where he wouldnt ask for help even if he needed it like when he had to take a break from baseball after pains he never mentioned became so bad they caused his arm real damage. No scientist knows this absolutely. 6. The Harrises moved away almost immediately. All the bullying stuff is bullshit. LITTLETON, Colo., April 24 - The parents of Dylan Klebold, one of the teenage shooters in the Columbine High School massacre, said goodbye to their dead son . Bedwetting, firesetting and cruelty to animals. The goal seems to have been parental appeasement. I encourage you to study the footage and reach out to others in the comments. I just don't know how something that is so basic as how the brain works is something that can be treated with therapy. Nothing taken care of that I needed him to do (like take care of the cats). When in a store and two or three siblings are fighting and shouting and behaving badly, how does that parent not see it? The bombing was planned for April 19th, to coincide with the Oklahoma bombing, but for some reason, they were set back to the 20th. I knew it wasnt nearly so simple (p. 146). My own experience is that my gifted teacher dragged me out of sporting events because they weren't academic enough, encouraged my teachers to assign me extra work that the other kids didn't do, and basically didn't understand teenagers, high school, or what it was like to be ostracized at all. Eric Harris was 17 and a hottie. Brian Rohrbough, father of victim Daniel Rohrbough, said he was outraged that the Klebolds likened the day of the shootings to a natural disaster in the interview with Brooks. its hard to take anything a grieving parents says objectively and we can of course have compassionate understanding for that but also realise it may differ from the reality of the situation, which must be painful. Eric: "Yea Everyone I love, I'm really sorry about all this. Isaiah's father said. 5 feet 6.5 inches tall, 135-140 pounds. I recently watched the documentary Raising Adam Lanza, and, though it wasnt as detailed, there were some interesting overlaps between Adam and Dylan. This thread is going to hell in jig time if it turns into the all-too-familiar "they were running up and down the aisles and that caused Columbine!!!" Mrs. Klebold had her hair done the day after the shooting. (p. 277). The testimony people point out of a co-worker stating Dylan didnt get on with his father is unreliable as he couldve been having a teenage moan or joining in one time right up to regular bitterly disparaging remarks and reasons why. Bull fucking shit. He injured 2 students before his gun jammed and he was arrested. on Thursday, April 23rd, 2020 Another migrant here from the other Columbine thread who's reading Cullen's book--. I read a lot of opinions on Eric and his dad Wayne. "I wonder if there was any homosex between those two.". He'd gone with a traditional black tuxedo, bow tie slightly askew. ", Dylan: (interrupts) "We did what we had to do. Victim's parents reactThe Klebolds comments was criticized late Saturday by some of the victims parents. But perhaps he/she IS a charter member of the Reb&VoDKa fan club - and you're just going to IGNORE it? . In my defense, R78, everyone knew I wrote the best hand. Second, the reason no one at the school noticed is because no one is ever trained to notice. We will just do the opposite and everyone will be safe. They often have an interest in guns and weapons, with easy access to firearms, and have often repeatedly made clear their violent intentions to others (usually peers). Attacks seem planned in advance, with the shooter expecting to be killed or planning to commit suicide in conjunction with the attack. As much as it sucked I knew deep down that it was just a stage and that it wasn't real. Eric Harris's father (Wayne Harris) was a former Air Force pilot stationed at Plattsburgh AFB in New York, rumored to be linked to covert operations such as mind control. And psychiatrists, rather dubious "doctors" push drugs. Dylan was giddy and beaming, all cleaned up for once. We are not there yet. Based on what I've read so far, he's working off the assumption that Klebold was a depressive with self-destructive tendencies (he mentions suicide over and over in the journal kept for two years prior to the incident), and that Harris was a full-blown psychopath. psycho school, nasty students, bullshit teachers, ignorant parents, hormones, bullying, rage. Gotta go. His parents were Wayne Harris and his wife Katherine Ann Poole. [quote]I think he made only one phone call to a recruiter. Sue Klebold Recalls What Her Son Dylan Was Like at Home: Part 2. She behaves as if it is normal, as if she doesn't even hear it. You teach them to recognize triggers that exacerbate symptoms. These people do have emotions. Okay, well, first of all, gifted programs don't monitor shit. I read a book about young doctors and they were discussing whether you can teach compassion. Dylan takes the camera then and begins filming Eric. Even still, he seemed happy and had a handful of close friends. Kids do know about their frineds. I can't believe Oprah canceled her Columbine show today. Or is your tiny mind only capable of two viewpoints? Im horrified, Dawn Anna, whose daughter Lauren Townsend was killed at Columbine, told The Associated Press. When I hear this "We never knew a thing was wrong with our child!" Dylan Klebold was 17 when he and Harris,18, carried out their long-planned attack on the high school about 13 miles south of downtown Denver. What kind of parent lets their kid have a swastika prominently displayed in their room (as just one of many, many signs that their offspring had problems)? Asking how instead of why allows us to frame the descent into self-destructive behavior as the process that it is. Just as the son's evil made people go back and re-evaluate his dad, discovering examples like the time Poppy sabotaged his opponent's sail boat the night before the race; one wonders if one should investigate more closely the dealings of the Harrises. I had to fight for their basic rights because allegedly educated teachers thought things like "retards are dangerous" and "retards should be kept away from the good kids". WTF?!? To be clear, I'm sure the Klebold's obviously loved their children, but reading Dylan's writings, there was more going on in that home that Sue would say today. It was obvious that the attack had been in the works for a long time, and the plan carefully thought out. They are rare. Harris's father erroneously stated that his son was "a member of what they call the Trenchcoat Mafia" in a 9-1-1 call he made on April 20, 1999.